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Charge queueing etiquette

Discussion in 'General Charging Discussion' started by Sandy, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    This is an observation I've noticed more recently and it's becoming a problem in some instances where it shouldn't even be an issue.

    Queuing at rapids (not related to EH that I've seen)!

    So as I see it there are 2 spaces. but rapids can generally only charge 1 DC and 1 AC and yet when 1 DC car is charging another DC owner will queue next to them in effect blocking anyone from AC charging.

    This shouldn't be an issue, I've spoken to DC users and all I get in return is "I'm next". They just don't seem to grasp that the AC owner can reply "yeah but I can charge now if you move and you can still be next for DC".

    I can see the flip side of this where An AC car is charging and another AC turns up so this isn't a DC only issue in the bigger picture.

    But the question is, how do we address it? How do we make it clear that there are 2 charging queues and that it's not on to block both sides of the charger?
     
  2. richtrash

    richtrash The older I get the faster I was

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    Before the EH started charging I used to have a similar problem at MSA's that have two pumps. Whenever I used to arrive I'd find that someone was happily charging on the CHADeMo on the CHADeMo/CCS pump so I'd end up waiting even though the other CHADeMo/AC pump was free.
    I guess that's just the way things will be until we have two separate triple headers at every MSA.
     
  3. arg

    arg Well-Known Member Speak EV Supporter

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    We need much better labelling of the chargers, since in a large number of locations the AC is either/or with the DC and so single queue is correct. You can't even tell just from the model of the equipment, as if the available electrical supply is insufficient then a charger capable of AC+DC may be set up for either/or so as to limit the total load.

    Maybe something to take up with Chargeplace Scotland, since they seem to own by far the largest fleet of such equipment in the UK at present?
     
    John Riley likes this.
  4. RickMGoldie

    RickMGoldie Well-Known Member

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    Separate stations for DC & AC is the simplest solution - maybe not the cheapest but it will hardly be wasted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. roscoe57

    roscoe57 New Member

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    maybe a 5..10m extension cable would have you sorted most times ?
     
  6. mgboyes

    mgboyes Well-Known Member

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    Not sure whereabout you're based but every multi-head rapid I've used has been limited to one car at a time, irrespective of which connector they are using.
     
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  7. mgboyes

    mgboyes Well-Known Member

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    You can't use extension leads - the Type 2 connectors are deliberately designed to prevent it.
     
  8. John Riley

    John Riley Ecohound

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    As a lucky Leaf owner I generally take a gamble and charge on the AC. My thinking is that I have seen more i3's charging than Zoe's however from March that might change with the new longer range Zoe. If the French market is anything to go by as they sold 1909 Zoe's to 135 i3's in December. ;)
     
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  9. Belstar

    Belstar Well-Known Member

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    I know the DBT chargers can but generally have it disabled (since it crudely halves the charge rate for both AC and DC irrespective of whether they're being used). The APT e-volt and Siemens (not sure about others) chargers can however do 43kW each to both AC and DC with a good enough supply, and can intelligently share the supply where the full 3Φ125A supply isn't available. Consequently nearly all APT and Siemens rapids are set to allow simultaneous AC/DC charging.

    EDIT: I haven't seen a unit that can do simultaneous Chademo/CCS charging though
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  10. Belstar

    Belstar Well-Known Member

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    Will certainly be interesting to see, although I suspect Renault will still be steering customers toward the non-rapid equipped Zoe. Also more range = less need for rapids? Would be interesting for somebody to run a study!
     
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  11. richtrash

    richtrash The older I get the faster I was

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    Fast chargers are definitely the way forward for destination charging, most cars can AC charge.
     
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  12. Belstar

    Belstar Well-Known Member

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    Even better - Cahors makes a rapid that can have 'satellite' units that allow several cars to utilise the main rapid simultaneously. The main unit can even have buffer batteries to allow several cars to draw the full 50kW.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    That's pretty much restricted to just Ecotrocity, pretty sure the DBTs that Scotland has (that are not EH) work fine on AC & DC simultaneously.

    Too late for that now, we have triple head dual AC & DC rapids mainly. So can we change how people think about queuing?

    Won't work, and anyway even if it did why should someone who can legitimately charge do this because someone who can't change and is waiting is blocking the available charging space?

    You've got an Ecotrocity-centric view of rapid charging I think. ;) Something we don't see in Scotland as we have but a smattering of EH posts.

    It was 2 brand new 30kwh Leafs parked at this rapid in question... Last time I encountered this it was a 30kwh Leaf and a new REX i3 (and they were both giggling away trying to get 2x DC working, until I explained it was 1 DC and 1 AC, and I was then told, yeah but you have to wait your turn, so I parked on other side of charger (in a regular space) and plugged in and ignored them).

    There has to be a simple way of informing owners that Rapids can charge 2 types of car at once, much like at a petrol station where you wouldn't go intentionally blocking the Unleaded only pump because the Diesel one you want is occupied?
     
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  14. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    I acknowledge that this could be 2 Zoes, 1 charging at 22kw on a public rapid with a big fat 41kwh pack and a Q210 waiting (or vice versa, or a combination of Rapid charge or long range). How would a Leaf owner, or a Tesla owner with a Chad adaptor feel about being told that the other car was next and they'd have to wait?

    The problem is, this is going to get worse, worse than the absent chargers at rapids. And having to explain to these people who are utterly slack jawed and beside themselves at you even merely suggesting 1 moves so you can charge is a waste of time.
     
  15. roscoe57

    roscoe57 New Member

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    if rapid has a near 3rd bay/space suggest to owner to consider lengthening the AC cable ?

    current EV drivers will become educated and be reasonable just in time for 5x more new ones to acquire an EV and spoil your day, whoops

    I have in the past plugged to chademo in whilst DDS? was hooked up, but i3 chap said 5, 10mins max, I toddled off to greggs came back 30m later and was nearly finished.
     
  16. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    And also lengthening the DC cables too presumably... seems quite reasonable.... if you ignore the laziness of others.
     
  17. Paul Ellison

    Paul Ellison Well-Known Member

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    If there is a problem with someone blocking the AC side as they wait for the DC side I've got a radical solution, explain the issue to them! I'm sure if someone understands you are not queue jumping, there is no problem with AC and DC charging together, and they are still next for DC, then they will move and let you in.

    It's amazing what a bit of polite communication will achieve if you try it.
     
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  18. Brads

    Brads Well-Known Member

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    Put the Chargers in the middle of 4 parking bays which are back to back?
     
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  19. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    Tried that.... your looked at as though your heads screwed on backwards. Besides it doesn't solve the problem that the person who can charge has been inconvenienced by the person that cant. Well communicated etiquette is probably all that's needed, but what's the best medium for maximum penetration.
     
  20. Dblock

    Dblock Active Member

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    I understand why people do it. The ones in cities aren't always in massive car parks so there will be the 2 bays for charging and other spaces might be far away from the spot so if someone else comes they might "lose" their place in line.
     
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