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My next (4th) EV...?

Discussion in 'General EV Discussion' started by Grant Thomas, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. Grant Thomas

    Grant Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    437
    Location:
    Emsworth, Hampshire
    EV:
    BMW i3 60Ah Rex, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    So those who have seen my VLOGs and blogs will know that I've been driving EVs for a while; in a nutshell;
    • 2012-2015 Nissan LEAF Mk1 'Bex' 36,000 miles - Company car
    • 2015 March - 2017 March - Nissan LEAF Mk2 Tekna 6.6kw - Personal PCP
    • 2015 July - 2017 July - Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Gx4h - Company car
    EDIT: So actually thats TWO EVs to change in the next 8 months so thats 4th AND 5th EV ;-)

    I love the LEAF, it's a sentimental thing as it was my first EV. It's also reliable and cheap ; my lease is £162 pcm 2 years / 10k miles with £1.5k deposit (friends and family deal), and if I could get the same deal on a 30kw / 6.6kw charger Tekna it would be a no brainer - Nissan dealers feel free to get in touch.

    However I do long for something quicker and loved the BMW i3 long test drives, but not the mahoosive price and reading lots of reliability issues. Outlander - it's a big beast, ideal for transporting large loads (I've started a brewery in the past year) but I hate driving it as you are nursing the 'eco' range dial for fear of the ICE flaring up each time you press the accelerator too hard, or switch on the heating.

    So with 2 cars up for renewal in the next 8 months, what to get next? Some random thoughts;
    1. Money no object I'd buy a Tesla Model S.
    2. I really thought the 200 mile range Generation 2 LEAF would have been announced by now however pricing from the states released last weekend for the Model Year 2017 LEAF show no Gen 2 anytime soon. Rumours that the 60kw battery already in production and a body shape based on the Pulsar model. Nissan seem to be loosing the EV initiative and playing catch up.
    3. Buy a Mk2 Tekna 24kWh / 6.6kw charger LEAF - now the Guaranteed Final Valuation on my PCP LEAF is an entertaining £14k so thats going back; but there seems to be a splattering of similar 2 year old models for around £7k popping up. With cheap servicing and I paid £160 fully comp insurance do I just buy one of these and drive it into the ground. After all the total cost of my 2 year PCP was £5,400 with no car at the end of it, so why not just buy a LEAF for only a little bit more
    4. There's a free Nissan dealer Rapid Charger 5 miles from home with 24 hour access, but frankly have only used it 5 times this year as not had the spare time to worry about saving £1.50 in electric
    5. Get a big loan and buy the £19k BMW i3 REX in the classified on here - looks like a great car but I have serious concerns over the faults I'm reading from owners; from faulty fuel flaps, airbags, eating tires, plastic engine mounts, water issues... Then there's no rapid charge on a REX model and no CCS Rapid Charge anywhere near..... I'm also concerned over rapid depreciation with 200 mile range cars in the next 2 years; not to mention no space and those doors.
    6. BMW id REX PCP for £299 a month no deposit. Mentioned to me by a family member who had been offered the deal, but I can't seem to get this deal repeated.....
    7. Buy an Ampera for £10k - great cars but slow charging, no longer made, how much trouble will I have in 4 years when the drivetrain etc warranty has gone and Vauxhall really don't care about them, not to mention only 3.3kw charging and no rapid charge and the 'on the floor' driving position where you literally feel every speed bump ;-)
    So if I can do a PCP deal on a 30kw LEAF or buy a Mk2 LEAF that leaves the need for a 'load lugger'
    • Given my frustration with the "Put your foot down and the ICE flares up' on the Outlander PHEV - what plug-in hybrids allow for pure EV mode, even if you put your foot to the floor?
    • I've always held the Ampera and BMW i3 as the best approach for EVs using the engine as a generator rather than driving the car (yes I know thats not STRICTLY true on the Ampera)
    • Should I be considering plug-in Mercedes, Golf / Passat GTE or BMW 3 series plug in hybrid instead, but they seem to have such a small electric range? Do they allow pure electric mode even at the traffic light grand-prix?
    • Should I buy a used Outlander PHEV, not on the company car scheme, but buy through the nano-brewery (sole trader) and help write down the taxation cost ? ( I know thats an odd one to throw in here but I could take the cash instead of the company car and then write down the cost of a used Outlander in the first year against the brewery - it's got huge amount of space, I'd just loathe driving it every day
    • Go for broke and get the Tesla Model S 60 on the company car scheme, the cost is DOUBLE my allowance so I'd have to sacrifice a big bunch of change, but I'd have the car I would dream of without any of the servicing or liabilities. I may also lose SWMBO in the process who was less than enthralled with the suggestion and seemed more keen the chunk of change be spent renovating the house LOL
    Discuss....
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
    John Riley and Bob Mingay like this.
  2. Dennis

    Dennis Moderator

    Messages:
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    Location:
    SoCal most of the time.
    EV:
    , Tesla Model S, Tesla Roadster
    Is CPO or inventory Model S an option in the U.K.?

    Unlimited supercharging ends Dec 31 of this year.

    Just a thought.
     
  3. Grant Thomas

    Grant Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    437
    Location:
    Emsworth, Hampshire
    EV:
    BMW i3 60Ah Rex, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    Nearest supercharger to me is Winchester, a 90 minute round trip so I'd never bother unless on a long road trip. I think the Tesla as a company car is only going to increase in cost with post brexit exchange rates
     
  4. SMike

    SMike Active Member

    Messages:
    160
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    89
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    EV:
    Tesla Model S
    Oh definitely buy the i3 REX listed here :whistle:
     
  5. Tahirs

    Tahirs Active Member

    Messages:
    150
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    53
    Location:
    Billericay, Essex
    EV:
    Audi A3 e tron
    My brother has a p60 and he gets around 140 miles in this weather. His car had paint defects on delivery, after weeks being repaired it came back worse, he's rejected it and is awaiting a replacement.

    Apart from the above no phone signal= no sat nav, he doesn't think much of his premium sound upgrade either.

    He's still pleased with it, but due to the range issues I'm going to be buying a phev ( we work together so handy if one of us has a car with longer range)
     
  6. Flyguy

    Flyguy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    265
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    273
    Location:
    Sheffield
    EV:
    Tesla Model S
    No brainier..... go for the Model S, or even a Model X if you need the load lugger ability.

    You know you want it :)
     
  7. Dennis

    Dennis Moderator

    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    876
    Location:
    SoCal most of the time.
    EV:
    , Tesla Model S, Tesla Roadster
    So, inventory or CPO is a purchase something now not build to order. If you do build to order one, use a referral code from an owner and save £750.

    But I was wondering what the market is for used through Tesla with the warranty that they provide.
     
  8. familymad

    familymad Active Member

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    Get another Leaf. Easy to get less than £200 a month on your spec.
     
    Bob Mingay, Phil W and Grant Thomas like this.
  9. Paul_Moxhay

    Paul_Moxhay Non Member

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    It is a difficult time right now to buy an EV. There is more choice than ever but having choice has made it even more difficult because the choices are not great.

    I would agree with nearly all of your points above and when I had to make that choice 9 months ago it was not a lot different. Of course, the car that ticks most of the boxes for most people right now is the Tesla Model S. It is IMO the only BEV that gets anywhere close to being a car you can use in a similar way to an ICE but the price is prohibitive for most and until there is an affordable 250 mile range BEV available it will probably remain the best option for a BEV. Others are catching up (i3 and Leaf for example) but it is like pulling hen's teeth: painfully slow progress.

    The decision I came to was that after 5 years of compromises with a Nissan Leaf that I wanted the no hassle, no compromise of a PHEV. Switching from the Leaf to the Ampera was like a breath of fresh air to me never having to worry about running out or planning in advance to make sure charging stations were working. Just get in a drive! I agree with you though that any PHEV must have a sensible electric range and a sensible ICE-only fuel consumption so for me that ruled out most PHEVs and it boiled down to the Ampera. The Ampera is a flawed design in many ways but right now I believe it to be the best compromise while the market catches up with Tesla. Add to that the fact that you can get a good one for about £15k and they are a very attract option.

    Having said that I am constantly seduced by the i3 REX. I love the car but there are many issues putting me off... particularly the small petrol range and high price for what you get for your money. My Ampera is nearly 5 years old now so I will need to think about replacement at some point and if I don't get another Ampera then the i3 is a likely replacement.

    What should you do? No idea... I would never presume... but I agree... it is a difficult choice right now.
     
  10. e_lm_70

    e_lm_70 Member

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    EV:
    Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    I know the pain of ICE start on Outlander PHEV

    The 2017 model will have proper EV mode, so this will not be an issue anymore soon .. but Outlander PHEV has very good price when it become around 2y old ... so ... this PHEV for a good price without ICE issue will be possible only from 2017 ...

    You put down a quite "strange" list .. from small city car , to big SUV, via luxus sedans ...

    I think value for the money is the best on Outlander PHEV, that can be find for less then 19k pound used in good condition. And it is a general purpose car (but I see you have this car already .. why not keep it longer .. it does not really get "old")

    If you look for a funny car to be driven .. BMW i3 is the answer

    EDIT: Ampera is also a good option too ... just not in my radar .. since neither "funny" nor 4x4 ... 4x4 is must have for me , due to lot of snow and ice in winter time
     
    Grant Thomas likes this.
  11. Kentish

    Kentish Well-Known Member

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    40kw kangoo ze maxi with rapid charging sounds like it would do your range needs and carry more than an outlander for half the money
     
    John Riley likes this.
  12. billysielu

    billysielu Vauxhall Astra

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    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    I think buying a used leaf is the only reasonably bang-for-buck option. However I like what Paul said about not wanting to compromise any more.
     
    roscoe57 likes this.
  13. Electric Toad

    Electric Toad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    EV:
    Tesla Model S
  14. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member Speak EV Supporter

    Messages:
    1,617
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    1,213
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    EV:
    Renault Zoe Q210, Vauxhall Ampera
    Wow....a proper EV bike, no gearbox or clutch and 150mph top end with a battery holding more charge than my Ampera!

    Must have a word with my bank manager................(y)

    EDIT....but what about Italian electrics :(
     
  15. Grant Thomas

    Grant Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
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    437
    Location:
    Emsworth, Hampshire
    EV:
    BMW i3 60Ah Rex, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    Outlander PHEV 2nd hand circa £15k and still able to lug family around, Kangoo ZE Maxi less than half that price inducing the battery lease? HATE the Renualt battery lease on all models.
     
    nattydread likes this.
  16. Grant Thomas

    Grant Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
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    437
    Location:
    Emsworth, Hampshire
    EV:
    BMW i3 60Ah Rex, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    RickMGoldie likes this.
  17. Grant Thomas

    Grant Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
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    Location:
    Emsworth, Hampshire
    EV:
    BMW i3 60Ah Rex, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
    It's because I have TWO EVs to replace; one needs to have space, the other is a runabout, or any mix of the two. SWMBO would have a BMW Mini tomorrow again, if only they would hurry up electrifying the NORMAL shape Mini
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  18. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member Speak EV Supporter

    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    1,213
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    EV:
    Renault Zoe Q210, Vauxhall Ampera
    The Ampera would take a Firkin large barrel of beer if not more than one and still beat hot hatches from the lights.
    Even a 2012 model warranty has ages to go on all the big expensive stuff.
     
    Lee Dalton likes this.
  19. RJT85

    RJT85 Active Member

    Messages:
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    EV:
    Tesla Model S
    :cry:
    Saw this at the Birmingham bike show. It would look great parked beside the Tesla. Don't think Mrs T would let me spend that much on a bike though :cry: She's so unreasonable. :D
     
  20. DJB

    DJB New Member

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    Location:
    Kent

    Yes, its a bit tricky at the moment. I did lots of test drives of all the major EV and hybrids. I went for a 30KW with (6.6kw charger) leaf on a 3 year personal PCP deal. If money was no object I would have gone for a Model S, I liked the drive train in the I3, but hated the doors, skinny tires, four seats and price. The Ampera's engine is way to big as a EV charger and with only four seats and horrible dashboard that was out as well. I liked the Kia Soul EV but the interior is a bit cheap and the glass angle picks up reflections from the cabin which is distracting and it wasn't that cheap to get. The VW Golf was nice but expensive and limited range. The Zoe was too small and cheaply made, the longer range one is more tempting now but I don't like the interior. I liked the Outlander but the EV range is too short.

    If I were you and you need two cars get a 30KW leaf for all the short journeys (mines does about 107 miles) on a personal PCP. The load lugger is a bit more of an issue. None of the bigger cars have a decent electric range except the Tesla. The AUDI Q7 hybrid looks nice as does the Porche Hybrid but they both have the short EV range issues and are expensive. The Newer Outlander behaves better with engine flareup when you put your foot down.

    i was VERY tempted to break the budget and get a low end Tesla...
     
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