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No way to charge EV from home

Discussion in 'General EV Discussion' started by TVEV, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. TVEV

    TVEV Active Member

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    Apologies if this has been answered in-depth before.

    I was just wondering what the solutions are, current and future, for people who want an EV car but cannot get a power source to it from home. Obviously, I'm thinking of houses with no driveway, or possibly blocks of flats with no spaces.

    I've heard talk of being able to get on-street personal charge points with council permission, but that might be uneconomical and impractical for many.

    As the EV technology improves, then I imagine fuel stations would be able to offer a very rapid charge in a few minutes, which I believe has been hinted at in the Faraday Future vehicle.

    Induction charging is another possibility.

    I'm fortunate enough to have a private driveway/covered access, so it's not a problem for me. However, I can see it would be an issue for many in cities for example. As cities probably need non-polluting vehicles the most, I'm thinking that it's a bit of a conundrum.

    Anyone got any thoughts on this?
     
  2. AtTheVan

    AtTheVan Well-Known Member

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    Inductive charging is woefully inefficient and so on a mass scale would be detrimental to the national grid, unless the technology really improves which seems unlikely as it's just a basic coil of wire.

    Destination charging at work/shopping centres might offset some of the pain of not having home charging, it needs to be somewhere you're going to be away for a while I guess.

    With the increased range of new cars maybe the short commuter journeys could be done with only one or two rapid charges a week, maybe at lunchtime or when going out at the weekend.
     
  3. MostlyBonkers

    MostlyBonkers Active Member

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    AtTheVan, I read your comment about wireless charging and it didn't ring true to me; I'm sure I saw a fully charged episode that talked about > 90% efficiency for wireless EV charging. I found this article of interest:

    Charging Batteries Without Wires – Battery University

    The key is resonance charging versus inductive charging. The rest of your comments made sense and I hope you don't mind me pointing this out. :)

    Losing up to 10% of the power due to transmission losses might sound like a lot to many people. It is, but the great thing is that we're starting to produce a significant amount of our energy from renewables. Some countries are producing more than they need. As grid storage comes online and dirty sources of power go offline, these losses become much less of a problem. Also, there is still much less power wasted compared to the process of converting electric power to hydrogen and back again. I hate to think how much energy it takes to move the energy stored in fossil fuels to their point of use, not to mention the ~4kWh of electricity it takes to refine crude oil into a gallon of petrol.
     
  4. gladini

    gladini Active Member Speak EV Supporter

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    Location:
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    Trouble is, with the current availability ( numbers of, and of them actually working / being available to you ) it's very hit+miss to try to run an EV without home charging ability of some kind.
    As in that home charger is dedicated to you, you're more likely to ensure it is always working, and you can move the ICE if there is one blocking it !


    I wonder how places like Chicago, HongKong, Tokyo see the issue being handled ?
    I think they are great examples of where people are jammed in and need good solutions to help EV take up.
     
  5. Prof. Squawkencluck

    Prof. Squawkencluck Active Member

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    There's only baby steps towards the infrastructure & it doesn't feel as though an even remotely joined-up is happening at any time soon.

    At our old place (terrace, no parking) we could not have sensibly run an EV even with the charge points that have gone in at my workplace (8 miles away) or in town (1-2 miles away). Just too damned inconvenient compared to 40L of high energy density petrol.

    On the flip side - a big majority of new housing has to have allocated parking so most of the shoe-box 2-3 bedroom terraces in our town have had to have a parking slot on the front garden.

    All the same it's a significant issue with mass EV take-up and a very valid point to bring to the forum.
     
  6. HandyAndy

    HandyAndy Well-Known Member

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    For a lot of city-based flat-dwellers etc with no charging, I think it's tough at the moment. But there are plenty of houses with 2nd cars, driveways etc, so I think there will be a huge take-up of EVs as 2nd cars, and gradually we'll see more demand for a properly supported charging system with availability guaranteed and 24 hour support etc. Only then, I think, will it get easier for city dwellers to justify running their own EV with no domestic charging access.
     
  7. Luke Saunders

    Luke Saunders Member

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    Some cars are coming out with solar roofs which can charge a couple of miles per day - not great but maybe enough for low mileage users.

    I've heard a lot of talk but never heard of anyone actually achieving this. I know I would certainly welcome that option.
     
  8. Warper

    Warper Member

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    As I've written here previously, I own an EV and I live in a terrace house with no charger. I charge at a local shopping mall (5 miles/8km always), at a rapid charger 6 miles away (emergency only) and recently, at a leisure centre 2 miles away. Some charge money for this and some don't. I own a Peugeot iOn and the useable range in winter is only 60 miles - less if you allow for the 5 mile trips to and from the shopping mall.

    However, I visit that mall a lot and I don't use the car for commuting. And if I charge at the leisure centre, I can go for a walk or a bike ride. You can adapt your habits to the charging routine. Shop at a supermarket that has chargers, for example, if you have one. Include charging into your fitness routine: plug in somewhere and go for a run or a walk.

    If the iOn could charge at 6.6kwh, life would be much easier, so that's something I'm looking for on my next electric car. That and a bit more range! But yes, it's perfectly possible, given the right conditions.
     
    ScotstounPele and JDleaf like this.
  9. Ten98

    Ten98 New Member

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    Battery capacity is already there. You can buy an i3 today with a 150 mile battery range, which is just incredible and more than enough for 99% of commuters. But these only work if you have a driveway and you're allowed to install a charging point (e.g. you own your house or rent from a decent landlord). No matter how many public charging points they install, at 8am on a Monday morning it doesn't mean shit. Stopping in rush hour traffic to charge my car for 40 minutes is unthinkable. You need to be fully charged first thing in the morning.

    I think the big breakthrough for people without a driveway will be self-driving cars. The way I imagine it is that you get home, get all your stuff out of the car, then press a button the key fob and it drives 2-3 miles down the road to the nearest charging station and plugs itself in. Then in the morning it's waiting for you in front of your house having driven itself home once it was full.
     
  10. bryand

    bryand Well-Known Member

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    This assumes there is an empty parking space at the front of your house when the self-driving car comes looking for it. If the street is jammed full of nose-to-tail parked cars, your self-driving car could be parked anywhere and you'll have to find it. Or it could be driving around in circles, using up its charge looking for a space.
     
    howartp likes this.
  11. Tarrybreeks

    Tarrybreeks New Member

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    I live in a terrace house with no home charge point but I am fortunate to live in a big city so there are public charge points all around me and I also have (exclusive for now) access to one at work which is great so it shouldn't necessary be a barrier to city dweller EV ownership.
     
    ScotstounPele likes this.
  12. Ten98

    Ten98 New Member

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    A simple notification to your phone in the morning telling you where your car is parked would be fine, and still a heck of a lot more convenient than stopping in rush hour traffic and hoping to find a fast charge point. Yes in very densely parked areas as you get in cities it could be problematic. Most people have at least an allocated parking space however, and schemes like "park on my drive dot com" where people can rent spaces from one another cheaply are becoming more popular.

    Ultimately though in the deep city it will just need to be owned by Uber, and drive itself back to the depot at night, or into the centre of town to carry drunkards around :)

    Work charging point is the dream. The govt incentives for installing them in a workplace are much better than the home ones as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  13. TVEV

    TVEV Active Member

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    Workplace charging is something that needs to be expanded and promoted, with more incentives.

    There are token and/or coin-operated charge points available, which could be an option for employers concerned about misuse. After all, we don't mind paying for electricity, as long as it is reasonable, right?
     
    ScotstounPele and MostlyBonkers like this.
  14. ScotstounPele

    ScotstounPele Active Member

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    I live in a flat in Glasgow. There is a public charger 3/4 of a mile away which I can walk to and from. I also work a mile away from a major shopping centre that has rapid and type 2 medium speed posts. I use my car periodically in work and, fortunately, the west of Scotland has a decent spread of rapid chargers - all free to use at time of writing, and virtually all on the CPS/CYC network.
     
  15. AnotherJoe

    AnotherJoe New Member

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    That's not very scaleable though. Works fine when it's you walking to the charge point from your flat in the morning, what if there are another 50 people vying for each of those charge points ?
     
  16. Tarrybreeks

    Tarrybreeks New Member

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    I live in Glasgow too ScotstounPele, is your closest charge point at Scotstoun leisure centre?
     
  17. ScotstounPele

    ScotstounPele Active Member

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    AnotherJoe - near to my "local" existing 7kw post (2 spaces), Glasgow City Council are putting in, I think, 2 units of 22kw charging spots (4 spaces) and a rapid charger - this has been announced and should be operational by March. I am also hopeful of one day persuading the housing association to install slow charging in the residents car park where I live, and perhaps also at the car park of a nearby pub.

    Tarrybreeks - I see why you would guess that from my username but I now live in Mount Florida (3/4 mile from Holyrood leisure centre which is my local 7kw post). I used to live in Partick and I played 7 a side football at Scotstoun, where I bear absolutely no resemblance to Pele.
     
    Tarrybreeks likes this.
  18. planetf1

    planetf1 Well-Known Member

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    for office charging it would help if HMRC had a blanket exemption to say there was no BIK concern for the next 5 years or similar. I know that as held back deployment in the past.
     
    ScotstounPele likes this.
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