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Prices out (kinda) for 41kwh upgrades

Discussion in 'Renault ZOE' started by Sandy, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    EV:
    Renault Zoe Q210
    Posted by Andrew Goodlad on RZOC

    "For rent €3500 under a new battery agreement - for purchase €9900 leaving the old battery" "Half day immobilisation"
    FB_IMG_1486596029270.jpg

    So around @£3k to upgrade a battery hire 22kwh pack to a 41kwh pack.. Plus associated slight hike in monthlies.

    Or about £8100 to remove a 22kwh hire and replace with a 41kwh wholly owned pack.

    Could be a cheap way into big range Zoe, big pack on a second hand Q210.
     
  2. StinkyPete

    StinkyPete Well-Known Member

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    I think there may be an element of "2+2=5" here. I'm 99% sure that RCI won't see it that way. I'd like to be proven wrong. Though I'm not interested in owning a degrading component outright, I think it would be good for RCI to be more flexible about switching from hired to owned, for people who are interested.
     
  3. gzoom

    gzoom Well-Known Member

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    Tesla charges £6.5k for an extra 10kWh of usable battery for the 60->75kWh cars, and thats with no labour costs.

    The 75->100kWh is nearly £20k extra.

    So £8100 for an extra 22kWh is pretty damn cheap in comparison!! Good work on Renault part, and shows how much profit Tesla must be making on their cars given they claim to have the cheapest kWh manufacturing costs.
     
    Stead, StinkyPete, Neilew and 2 others like this.
  4. Zoe Al

    Zoe Al Zoe Q210 Dynamique Intens

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    I thought 60 - 75kWh on Teslas was just a software upgrade
     
    Sparkalicious likes this.
  5. Edd Beesley

    Edd Beesley Moderator

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    ~£5k for a rental Q210 and then £8k for the new pack, could be tempting, although then not a huge difference to a new ZE40. I guess that's kinda how they're pricing it, hoping to shift new metal rather than upgrade, but attractive enough to those who already have the car. Might also drive prices of the Q210 up slightly?
     
    cah197 likes this.
  6. gzoom

    gzoom Well-Known Member

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    It is, which is why Tesla put the price up of the 60kWh Model S recently and dropped the 60kWh Model X.....What ever tale Musk spins about wanting EVs to be 'mass market' their top priority is profit margins. The £4.5K 'premium' pack is almost all software upgrades on the Model X, your get the HEPA filter which is about $200 and some extra LED lights for which the wiring is apparently all in place in all cars.

    I cannot see the situtation dramatically for the Model 3, as investors will want to see Tesla making money, so Renault/Nissan are still really the only manfacture likely to deliver the first ture 'affoadable' EV with the next gen Leaf/Zoe.
     
  7. Buzzar

    Buzzar Active Member

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    I own a Zoe-i so own the car and battery outright. It would be just a case of part exchange the battery for me
    IF Renault extend the offer to we Zoe-i owners can only hope.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  8. Neilew

    Neilew Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if those prices are right it certainly makes my aim of buying a used Zoe, especially a Q210, in 2018 a good idea as it would almost certainly be battery rented. The i's are so very rare. With an upgraded pack it's no longer a city car.
     
  9. mihai

    mihai Well-Known Member

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    There are some markets (i.e. Germany) in which Tesla buyers do not qualify for the state benefit, effectively and discriminately cutting Tesla sales. There are two sides to the argument:
    - pro: if you can afford a Tesla, you are rich enough to not need an aid (same I could say about i3s here, but the government disagrees) - this is what most tabloids always argue
    - against: what difference does it make the price if we want to get the technology out asap? Tesla buyers should receive the state aid - this is what most owners argue

    To circumvent the law, Tesla had to offer a car that is just one euro below the maximum threshold set by the law and to make it look like it's not done on purpose they had to include this pricing in all other (at least European) markets. I think this was the reason why S 60 was back on the price list anyways. Yes, it's a software downgrade/upgrade and I think Tesla does take a loss on the deal. For the German market, which is more key to Tesla than the UK market (due to the luxury segment competition) and for German buyers it makes sense to buy a S60, get 5,000 euros from the government and then upgrade to S75 by effectively paying out net out of your pocket about 2,000 euros (I think that's the net upgrade cost). The difference, on the website, between S60 and S75 is 14,000 euros, so for it kind of makes sense economically for the customer, circumvents the law and brings Tesla both sales and losses.

    But I may be wrong.
     
    John Riley, m1chaels and Neilew like this.
  10. mihai

    mihai Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the main thread, my understanding is that you can buy an old Zoe with rented batteries and then upgrade to owned 41kWh, right? So you buy a 22kWh old Zoe with battery rental for 10k and then pay another 10k for the battery replacement (without contract), effectively getting you a higher range Zoe (without Bose lol). That seems a reasonable deal.

    I leased a 22kWh Zoe until 2019, so paying 3,500 euros for the upgrade must be justified over the next 3 years in terms of reducing pain/increasing convenience. I'm not sure I'd pay 1200 euros a year extra for the added benefit. Although I'm in love with my Zoe now, I'm pretty positive by 2019 they'll put out a 60kWh+ one, with much faster charging, so it's worth upgrading at that moment. Argh! Tough choice!! :p
     
  11. Sandy

    Sandy Zoe Devotee

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    Which part of that isn't clear? I see no doublespeak! Rent 3500, purchase 9900! Pretty sure Renault are behind the deal, not RCI!

    Show me a Q90 for £13k, cheapest I've seen was an R90i for £17k (and that was cheap).

    This if handled right by Renault could see a real buoyancy to old Zoe sales. Where else can you get a near 200 mile range EV for under £13k that also still has some warranty on it.... genius if they pull it off.
     
    cah197, yoh-there and Neilew like this.
  12. StinkyPete

    StinkyPete Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem is that the slide you have shown is ambiguous. You are reading it one way, and I am reading it another.

    Two options:
    1. Renault are offering 2 battery packs. One that you can rent, which they will install for €3500 and one that you can buy, which they will install for €9900.
    2. Renault are offering 2 upgrade paths. One for people currently renting the battery pack with an upgrade price of €3500 and one for people who own the battery pack, with an upgrade price of €9900.
    Now, I am reading it as option 2. My reason for this is that I rent my battery from RCI - the battery belongs to RCI. I don't envisage being able to give Renault a battery that belongs to RCI in part-exchange for a new battery that I own.

    That's not to say that it couldn't happen. That €9900 could include the return of the removed rented battery to RCI (which is purportedly the only stipulation for RCI to cancel the rental agreement) and RCI could have an agreement with Renault to facilitate an upgrade scenario like this.

    I'm just a naturally sceptical person. :)

    Edit: I believe that the statement "... for purchase €9900 leaving the old battery" is meant to clarify that "i" owners would be trading-in their old battery for that price. They don't get to buy a new battery for €9900 and keep the old one.
     
    yoh-there and Kotek Besar like this.
  13. philincornwall

    philincornwall Member

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    £3k for 1/2 a days work? Seems a little steep as you are switching from a rented product to another rented product?
     
    StinkyPete likes this.
  14. Ryan and a Zoe

    Ryan and a Zoe Active Member

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    If the figures are correct and £3k is for rented battery and £8.1k is for owned battery then at £0.08 per mile it works out as around 63,750 before the battery owned option is going to be viable for you. And in reality it would be higher as you pay the capital cost up front possibly while excess mileage charges would be incurred at the end of the hire agreement and the fact you would lose your lifetime warranty without the rented option.
     
    Zoe Al and Kentish like this.
  15. Neilew

    Neilew Well-Known Member

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    I see that as a bit for the work involved and a bit for the extra capacity and newer battery. The rental then makes up the difference between the cost outright.
     
    StinkyPete likes this.
  16. Kotek Besar

    Kotek Besar Play by the king and love is all I bring Speak EV Supporter

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    seem to have ended up in Yorkshire..
    EV:
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    The GFV of my blue Zoe (Dynamique Nav R240) is £7889. In round figures then, at the end of my 2 yr PCP in Dec this year, I either hand it back or pay £16k to keep it and upgrade the battery with no further payments.

    How much can a Dynamiq Nav "i" R90 be got for?
     
  17. Neilew

    Neilew Well-Known Member

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    It's cheaper to let it go and buy a different second hand one. That's what I plan to do, if the battery is up-gradable at the point of purchase. I expect £6-8k for the car plus £3500 for the battery. I like the idea of rental because of the evassist.
     
  18. yoh-there

    yoh-there Co-author of CanZE. Q210

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    It is not just for the work. It is for the work, the logistics and probably most of all the early ending of the revenue of the old battery with no chance to recoup it in another rental as it is now detached from a car to shift and no more new 22 cars will be shipped.
     
    John2, Kotek Besar and Neilew like this.
  19. Colin

    Colin Well-Known Member

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    I was quoted £17,590 from DSG.
     
    John Riley and Kotek Besar like this.
  20. Jim Craig

    Jim Craig Member

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    This is exciting news if it turns out to be true. Have you seen any indication of when? Also would it be available to all Zoe's? I'm on the train into London with a view to buying a 2013 model.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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