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VW Golf update to include "mild hybrid"

Discussion in 'General VW EV Forum' started by Tim Ostler, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Tim Ostler

    Tim Ostler Well-Known Member

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    "The new mild hybrid powertrain, which uses a 1.0-litre turbocharged petrol engine, is said to be capable of returning 60mpg under real-world conditions.

    Unlike conventional hybrids, which see petrol engines and electric motors both providing power, mild hybrids use an oversized starter motor and generator to give temporary assistance to the engine, thus giving the car extra pulling power when needed. In reality, the system should help the updated Golf to accelerate more quickly than today's car while continuing to return impressive fuel economy."

    New VW Golf confirmed for November - What Car?
     
  2. gladini

    gladini Active Member Speak EV Supporter

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    So like the Honda Hybrid ( sort of Prius rival a few years back?) where it had a battery which got regeneration on downhills, braking etc. But, the car was never able to go along on just battery itself ?
    Least when I test drove it, I could never work out how to motor along just on electrons.
    The engine seemed to kick in all the time, including traffic jam 5mph stuff.

    The writer of the article confuses me by saying conventional hybrids see petrol and electric motors both provide power, which is what I thought a mild hybrid >only< can do.
    Where does the generator store what it, errr, generates, if not a battery of some sort ?!?
     
  3. Dean Hamer

    Dean Hamer Well-Known Member

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    Watched this American car show last week. The VP of delphi engineering explains the principle of mild hybrids quite well.



    If it improves the efficiency and fuel consumption of ICE vehicles then its a positive in my eyes.
     
    chr4 likes this.
  4. gladini

    gladini Active Member Speak EV Supporter

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    Thankyou for the video, she does indeed do a very clear and understandable explanation, sorting out all the questions.
    Seems the new news is the 48volt system vs the tech used in the Honda Insight type cars, so it should give more shove, store more energy, recuperate more efficiently, and so reduce CO2, aid mpg as well as improving driving experience.
     
  5. Jack

    Jack Moderator

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    AFAIK the system is bought in from Bosch, Bosch made a big song and dance about their systems earlier in the year.
     
  6. Matt Beard

    Matt Beard Still Driving an EV!

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    What to do, what to do...

    Shall we make the e-Golf range compete with the Ampera-e?

    Shall we improve the GTE with better electric-only miles?

    Oh... hang about. Why don't we just bung in this off-the-shelf fix from Bosch and retire to the bar while we wait for all this "green" nonsense to go away!
     
    Phil W and Stead like this.
  7. MrPaulus

    MrPaulus Active Member

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    What is actually happening is that VW is improving both the e-Golf and the GTE. However, neither car is cheap to build or buy. Joe Public may be much more interested in a cheaper mild hybrid which saves money on fuel and does the 'silent and fast pulling away' trick.

    It sounds like a sensible strategy.
     
  8. Tim Ostler

    Tim Ostler Well-Known Member

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    It's like vaping -- you can criticise it for its not being the same as giving up completely, but it's better than not doing anything...
     
    richtrash likes this.
  9. gladini

    gladini Active Member Speak EV Supporter

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    Were you referring to this part of the article at the start of the thread ?
    as well as revised versions of the Golf GTE hybrid

    Just wondering what those revisions might be ? Anyone heard ?
     
    Paul Newport likes this.
  10. Paul Newport

    Paul Newport Active Member

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    I assume it's getting the same sort of traffic jam assist, auto braking if a pedestrian jumps in front, hand gestures on the touch screen etc niceties that the Golf is getting too.
     
  11. Paul Newport

    Paul Newport Active Member

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    For those of us unable to plugin this is good news, don't knock it.
     
    Tim Ostler likes this.
  12. Brads

    Brads Well-Known Member

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    There are reports of the Ioniq and Niro hybrids returning 60-80mpg in the real world so by default they should be much cleaner than diesels so they are a step forwards.
     
  13. donald

    donald Well-Known Member

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    The 'mild hybrid' is simply an oversized alternator on a belt drive. When decelerating it will create electromagnetic drag on the engine/drivetrain, and it'll give a belt-delivered boost when accelerating and for quick start.

    The old Honda system is a true parallel hybrid (parallel hybrids cannot be run with a stationary ICE unless clutched, which is not necessary on the Honda system) with a large motor on the flywheel. Contrary to your impressions, there will have been times driving it when the engine DID stop operating, though it had to carry on rotating. The valve control would decompress the cylinders and they'd just flap around but do no work (neither decel nor accel).

    You probably noticed that it was a very quiet car for an ICE. That's because the times when an ICE would have been more noticeable, the ICE in your Honda wasn't doing anything but rotating.

    I really like the old Honda system and have considered buying one as a stop-gap between cars in the past. Might still do. It is a well designed and elegant system with good solid mechanical robustness because of its simplicity. It's just an ICE with a nice electrical machine attached to the flywheel.

    VW's commitment to EVs is pathetic. This system is all talk and no trousers.
     
    Stead likes this.
  14. Jack

    Jack Moderator

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    They both use GDI engines so produce the same if not more particulate content as a diesel. Euro rules do not require GDI engines have DPF bins.
     
    Stead likes this.
  15. MrPaulus

    MrPaulus Active Member

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    I don't think that's fair. The e-Golf is a credible EV, and VW have just improved it even more. They are also doing what Hyundai have done, and giving buyers a choice of mild hybrid, PHEV hybrid and full EV.

    And before saying 'dealers don't want to sell them' let's give them a chance.
     
  16. Brads

    Brads Well-Known Member

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    They should be lower on CO and NOx though, more so until SCR becomes standard fitment on lower powered diesels. They can also run without the ICE on for short periods.
     
  17. Jack

    Jack Moderator

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    CO and NOX aren't choking our cities and populated places.

    I do not believe that GDI is a justifiable tradeoff.
     
  18. Tooks

    Tooks Well-Known Member Speak EV Supporter

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    Wouldn't that depend on which engine, specifically?

    Looking at the official figures for the Kia GDI hybrids, tailpipe particulates are zero?

    Or is this one of those NEDC things because in the test it would be on electric?

    Even looking at the Golf GTI (2.0L DI Petrol) PM is 0?
     
  19. Stead

    Stead Well-Known Member

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    do you have any links to this data? I remember doing a lot of reading up when emissions on diesels came out, and I remember reading about a lot of modern petrol engines that pollute a hell of a lot more than some of the worst offenders with diesels but I can't seem to find any references to these things any more, the little 3 cylinder engines that's fitted to most small city cars now was particularly bad I remember.
     
  20. donald

    donald Well-Known Member

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    I did. They blew it.

    5 times.

    They blew it.

    They blew it.

    They blew it.

    They blew it.

    They blew it.

    ... that many chances.

    I waved a bundle of cash at them 5 times at 4 different dealers, ready to buy an e-Up!, and they never responded.

    (Then they were caught with their pants down, screwing over the general car-buying population, as well as the tax authorities. So I wasn't interested any more.)

    And how many e-Up! did they actually sell? These amazing, sought-after cars?

    Exactly how many chances should I give them?

    I will say it because I have a total experience of this; Dealers don't want to sell them.
     
    billysielu likes this.
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